kennedy resigns

[gmt]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4590688.stm

[John]

I think it is disgusting, his party need to take a look at themselves the power grabbing wannabes, if they want to get rid of him fair enough but dont use his addiction problems as the reason. People think George Best was a hero and that expisshead George W Bush is doing OK for himself.

[martin]

I agree John 100%

Rattle any politicians cage and a fair few skeletons will fall out no doubt.

The guy had the guts to admit it and was doing something about it.

Sad but inevitable.

Good luck to him :)

[oldboy2000]

Give him time He'll be back.....and I wish him luck too.

PS: No I don't Vote Lib Dem:lol

[Paul]

I would have voted lib dem if Charles stayed - just think of how much duty would be taken off booze :lol

[shazam100]

I think it is disgusting, his party need to take a look at themselves the power grabbing wannabes, if they want to get rid of him fair enough but dont use his addiction problems as the reason. People think George Best was a hero and that expisshead George W Bush is doing OK for himself.


I don't think it was the drink per se, it was the usual politician's ploy of lying about it that did for him, and imo, quite rightly. Unfortunately, though this also applies to a load of other mp's (not to mention the pm ! ) no-one seems inclined to attack them.
I hope that Menzies Campbell becomes their leader since I feel he has more integrity, though he IS a politician ;)

[druid]

The guy had the guts to admit it and was doing something about it.



Err, he only admitted his problem when it became clear to him that the story was to be on National TV that evening! He had many opportunities to admit the problem over the last ten months and only did so now because he was about to be found out!

Had he made the admission before he might have had more respect.:eek:

[John]

Its not like he knocked someone up or claimed a 45 minute warning or something though is it, what he was hiding affected his personal life and nothing else.

[martin]

True John - but patently druid and shazam lead such blameless perfect lives.

What it is to be them :lol

was the usual politician's ploy of lying about it that did for him

I think I said this before....lie? More like couldnt admit and even face the truth.

But I of course can see that as I am far from perfect....not like tweedledum and tweedle dee :lol :lol

Said in jest and good humour before you start getting "irritated" :)

[druid]

True John - but patently druid and shazam lead such blameless perfect lives.



I never said that either of us led blameless lives and IMHO it has nowt to do with the subject, you said The guy had the guts to admit it and was doing something about it. I merely stated that he only admitted it because he was found out, I never judged him on his addiction.

During the past 12 months Mr Kennedy has been asked on TV several questions about this subject from the answers he gave to the questions it is obvious he did not tell the truth, yet during that time Mr K stood up in the commons and branded the Prime minister a liar, IMHO the words Pot Kettle and black spring to mind!

This may not be a popular opinion in this forum but half of his own MPs seem to think he was wrong!:eek:

FWIW I am not irritated just entering discussion.

[shano]

I don't think any negative comments are necessarily about judging HIM.

Surely, it is about judging is an alcoholic fit for the job?

IMHO -Tony Blair has far bigger personality problems than your average alcoholic, but alchoholism does not come alone, it brings a whole host of other negative behaviours and personality traits?

I don't like what has happened here, but reading between the lines, he has been asked to address this problem for a lengthy period by his colleagues and like any alcoholic, whilst people stand by them - they will NOT seek proper help. The abandonment is an essential part of their own recovery, not a pack of enablers...

[shazam100]

I don't think any negative comments are necessarily about judging HIM.

Surely, it is about judging is an alcoholic fit for the job?

IMHO -Tony Blair has far bigger personality problems than your average alcoholic, but alchoholism does not come alone, it brings a whole host of other negative behaviours and personality traits?

I don't like what has happened here, but reading between the lines, he has been asked to address this problem for a lengthy period by his colleagues and like any alcoholic, whilst people stand by them - they will NOT seek proper help. The abandonment is an essential part of their own recovery, not a pack of enablers...

Wrong ! At least from my perspective. I NEVER judged him for his alcohol addiction at all !
My whole point was that he compoundd things by LYING about them, like many other politicians we could all name here.
The WHOLE point for me is that if you cannot trust an MP WHY do we bother voting for them ?
Years ago, politicians caught lying were virtually obliged to resign office, pity they still aren't imv. It might even provide the impetus we need to 'cull' at least 200 of the perishers, though I can't understand why we allowed them to proliferate by this number despite our loss of 'empire' !

[Geoffw]

A couple of points I’d like to toss in!

Firstly, I agree that he had to go. Sad that it is, because he brought the LibDems to the point of replacing the Tories as the main opposition party, but then they (he) failed at the final hurdle. Now the Tories seem to have finally woken up to 21st century reality, so I suspect most LibDems, in their hearts, realise that despite having more MPs than they have had before in modern times – a crucial chance has been missed.

As for the issue of alcoholism, would people really vote for a potential government led by someone who, might still be an unreformed alcoholic? I am afraid I agree with the cynics, he only admitted it because the conspiracy of silence in the media and among his colleagues was breaking down.

Personally I find him a ‘great bloke’, clever and entertaining, and ten years of being a reformed alcoholic, would make him well placed to be trusted with leadership, but I don’t think many get the chance of a second bite at that particular cherry in politics.

[Gina]

I wouldn't vote for an alcoholic - alcohol dulls the brain! :(

[oldboy2000]

Apart from what the press was saying I'd never have known....he certainly didn't look like one and there is usually some tell tale sign..

[oldboy2000]

Reminds of the fracas between Winston Churchill and Bessie Braddock.....when she accused Winston of Being drunk in the house........She said The Rt hon Gentleman is Drunk to which he replied the Rt Hon Lady is Ugly but I'll be sober in the morning .....:lol

[oldboy2000]

I wouldn't vote for an alcoholic - alcohol dulls the brain! :(


By what they do at times I wonder if they have Brains, or perhaps they have already embarked on the slippery slope :lol

[fabienne]

The way he's been treated is disgusting. Since when has anyone got an obligation to tell the media of a medical condition? These things are private between him and his doctor.

[shano]

Shazam, my apologies. I was not meaning to state that people in here, in particular were judging his alcoholism, rather than himself - it was a general comment re the political situation, not directed to an individual on a board.:)

Re lies: How can we judge a politician for lying - there are particularly few individuals in lifes entirety that do not lie, it is a general essential to most to get by as a society in life...i would LOVE to see parliament for a day if just ONE of them spoke the truth :lol

Oldboy: No signs of alcoholism, what do you want him staggering around slurring his words? Like erm child abuse, an alcoholic in general is not obvious to others...

Fabienne. A medical condition? Does not need exposed except to a Doctor.
Well, I've fired people for drink problems, and id do it again.
Let me see, if i were to put you on a building site with an alcoholic co worker who your physical safety relied on, and thier impaired faculties and judgement led to your death. Hypothetically, if you could, would yuo still say its only their doctors business or would you ask why they had been left in a position of responsibility?

[oldboy2000]

Sorry Mrs Perfecto I really must only listen to you because you are the only one who is right....of course how could I forget ....:lol

I really must learn NOT to pass on my comments on here...Give me time and I will learn...:lol .....forgive me but it will take a bit of time

Acholics always do give it away in some shape or form ....now take it out of that...:mad:

[oldboy2000]

[QUOTE=shano]Oldboy: No signs of alcoholism, what do you want him staggering around slurring his words? Like erm child abuse, an alcoholic in general is not obvious to others...

Do you have to bring up "Child Abuse" or is it just to be nasty to me ! ??? YES of course it is, Thought this was about an Alchaholic ....So I got it wrong again ...so frigging what...

[shano]

groan - isn't disagreement healthy?

[shano]

p.s
Mrs Perfecto

I'm perfectly happy in a very imperfect and very fallible state...

are you, it appears not...cos

I'm not the one that has the problem with any counter view :)

[oldboy2000]

p.s


I'm perfectly happy in a very imperfect and very fallible state...

are you, it appears not...cos

I'm not the one that has the problem with any counter view :)
Why did you bring up Child Abuse ???

[shano]

One very small part humour, none sarcastic.
Secondarily - a relevant factor because just like you claimed you would recognise child abuse, you make the same equation with alcoholism and state there are ALWAYS tell tale signs - which is NOT so. Equally, you said he didn't look like one - pray tell, what does an alcoholic look like?

[SpaceAgent]

Why did you bring up Child Abuse ???Dave - I'm asking this in a spirit of friendship - why do you turn every thread into a "Dave the put-upon martyr" discussion.

If you are having a hard time in your personal life you have my every sympathy, but it really seems to be getting to the point where it looks as though you may need some professional help.

Just chill out mate - don't take everything as a personal attack. :)

[oldboy2000]

p.s


I'm perfectly happy in a very imperfect and very fallible state...

are you, it appears not...cos

I'm not the one that has the problem with any counter view :)

Yes I have a problem a very bad sex problem but that is going to be cured as I'm signing up with ShanosWorld to get good Sex Advice....

[shano]

Look forward to seeing you there :eek: :lol ;)

[oldboy2000]

Dave - I'm asking this in a spirit of friendship - why do you turn every thread into a "Dave the put-upon martyr" discussion.

If you are having a hard time in your personal life you have my every sympathy, but it really seems to be getting to the point where it looks as though you may need some professional help.

Just chill out mate - don't take everything as a personal attack. :)


Thank you for the concern but I do not need any professional help I am perfectly sane just as you are...There are two people and you know who they are get right up my nose, there was no need at all for her to bring up about child abuse in this thread and you know it and I will never back down and allow these dummies who hide under anonymaty to say on here what they wouldn't say directly to my face.......:mad:

[oldboy2000]

__________________________________________________ ________________

No way would I join that depraved lot......saddos is what I call them.

The above is the line I have drawn under this now ....Hat & Coat on (tin hat of course!)....Thread is now closed to me thanks to the nice people on here and there comments Cheers ....Dave

[ormus]

so the darling of the left has been found out to be a lying son of a b1tch.
just like all politicians hes just a corrupt cheating incompetant sod.
good riddance to him. he should marry george galloway.


and they wonder why the public dont trust any of them?
they really are lower than lawyers and bankers.

[shano]

No way would I join that depraved lot......saddos is what I call them

What and whom would this be referring to :)

[Oldun]

What gets me is the fact that the public get no say in these matters only the back-stabbing politicians . It happened with Maggie Thatcher. now with kennedy. If I vote for a party with a particular leader I expect to have a say in whether he goes or stays .

However it does strike me that given a situation like B-Liar had (ie) should we go to war or not . Would a decision like that cause an Alcoholic to make a rational decision .

Finally this does seem to be a subject where we have a very wide range of opinions . Which is fine as long as people don't take comments too personally .

[SpaceAgent]

should we go to war or not . Would a decision like that cause an Alcoholic to make a rational decision.Fair point. On the other hand, even though I personally think that Mr Kennedy did need to resign, could an alcoholic have made any worse a decision re whether to go to war with Iraq than the decision that was actually taken?

[druid]

I'm signing up with ShanosWorld to get good Sex Advice....

I had not noticed this link TBH, shall have to go and have a 'butchers'!:eek:

[oldboy2000]

I had not noticed this link TBH, shall have to go and have a 'butchers'!:eek:


Whatever Grabs you !:lol

Had a quick look, bloody perverts and saddos I wouldn't doubt..:lol

[Nick]

Whatever Grabs you !:lol

Had a quick look, bloody perverts and saddos I wouldn't doubt..:lol


Was it someone else that psoted this on your behalf then?

Yes I have a problem a very bad sex problem but that is going to be cured as I'm signing up with ShanosWorld to get good Sex Advice....

[shano]

Right you prejudiced narrow minded old man, i think you have just about gone far enough.

You, are welcome to insult me, personally, as much as you like as often as you like - i understand you have problems...:)

depraved, perverts and saddos

That, however, is smack bang out of order cos you are without reason castigating an entire membership of a forum with labels you apparently deem fit, [some members are also members here too :) ] such as depraved, saddo and pervert.

Now, let me just look at the meaning of depraved:
ETYMOLOGY: 15c, originally meaning 'to disparage; to speak ill of': from Latin depravare to pervert or distort.

Now tell me who is behaving in a perverse and depraved manner? I thik the cap fits yourself very well indeed.

Obviously you DO have a very big sex problem cos contrary to the opinion you hold there isnt exactly anything wrong with it [otherwise none of us would be here!] and only those who think sex is something bad or wrong would ever describe a forum that contains some sex discussion [no porn] as perverse, sad or depraved. Just remember, those that think there is nothing wrong with sex keep it a healthy gift. Those, like yourself that see it as something for the depraved put the oomph and x factor into sex turning it into an up for sale capitolist dreamboat for 'the perverse'.

Coincidentally, it never amuses me less each time it happens that someone with such a huge 'sex is dirt' attitude hits my forum [and its members] with insults, cos strangely enough, there are 12 forums, they never mention the rest, nor out of all the pages of content do they EVER read anything else other than oral sex articles, and they dont just read once, they read again, and again, and again - now why the hell would that be?

Kettle and pots spring to mind - always remember, nothing you view on the net is entirely anon..!

My apologies for the divergence from thread topic. I've said my piece re the above...

[shazam100]

Was it someone else that psoted this on your behalf then?


:lol :lol :lol

Oh Dear, fallout imminent I fear ! :lol

[shazam100]

Right you prejudiced narrow minded old man, i think you have just about gone far enough.

You, are welcome to insult me, personally, as much as you like as often as you like - i understand you have problems...:)



That, however, is smack bang out of order cos you are without reason castigating an entire membership of a forum with labels you apparently deem fit, [some members are also members here too :) ] such as depraved, saddo and pervert.

Now, let me just look at the meaning of depraved:
ETYMOLOGY: 15c, originally meaning 'to disparage; to speak ill of': from Latin depravare to pervert or distort.

Now tell me who is behaving in a perverse and depraved manner? I thik the cap fits yourself very well indeed.

Obviously you DO have a very big sex problem cos contrary to the opinion you hold there isnt exactly anything wrong with it [otherwise none of us would be here!] and only those who think sex is something bad or wrong would ever describe a forum that contains some sex discussion [no porn] as perverse, sad or depraved. Just remember, those that think there is nothing wrong with sex keep it a healthy gift. Those, like yourself that see it as something for the depraved put the oomph and x factor into sex turning it into an up for sale capitolist dreamboat for 'the perverse'.

Coincidentally, it never amuses me less each time it happens that someone with such a huge 'sex is dirt' attitude hits my forum [and its members] with insults, cos strangely enough, there are 12 forums, they never mention the rest, nor out of all the pages of content do they EVER read anything else other than oral sex articles, and they dont just read once, they read again, and again, and again - now why the hell would that be?

Kettle and pots spring to mind - always remember, nothing you view on the net is entirely anon..!

My apologies for the divergence from thread topic. I've said my piece re the above...

Firstly, there was no apology necessary from my previous post. :)

But, I don't think you needed to defend your own site here, just because it was unfortunately alluded to in a disparaging sense by another poster...you know who !

I think it is generally frowned upon to pick other BB's to pieces or make adverse comments on this or any other board, so I hope this can end here.

If others wish to visit your board (and I'll be over to have a look like Druid ! ) then we'll doubtless do so. I hope that whatever opinions we have on it (if any ) will be posted THERE, where they belong.

Respects. :) :)

[ EDIT just tried to visit your site, but it seems to be down ! :lol ]

[shazam100]

Dave - I'm asking this in a spirit of friendship - why do you turn every thread into a "Dave the put-upon martyr" discussion.

If you are having a hard time in your personal life you have my every sympathy, but it really seems to be getting to the point where it looks as though you may need some professional help.

Just chill out mate - don't take everything as a personal attack. :)


Seconded from me too.
I know you have a sense of humour Dave, please use it instead of the rather paranoid response to something you disagree with....I don't believe anyone here is out to attack you personally. :) :)

[shano]

Firstly, there was no apology necessary from my previous post.

Thanks

But, I don't think you needed to defend your own site here, just because it was unfortunately alluded to in a disparaging sense by another poster...you know who !

I think it is generally frowned upon to pick other BB's to pieces or make adverse comments on this or any other board, so I hope this can end here.

Most certainly end of for me. My annoyance was the plurality [if thats a word!] re direction of comments upon people.

If others wish to visit your board (and I'll be over to have a look like Druid ! ) then we'll doubtless do so. I hope that whatever opinions we have on it (if any ) will be posted THERE, where they belong.

Respects.


I too, would much have preferred if the poster had anything to say, they had been said in the relevant place, whereby they could have been responded to thre too. I didn't exactly like, having to defend my own membership in someone else's forum, perhaps i should have placed an open response to the comments in my own gaff. Any comments you have to make, or opinions, would of course be respected, welcomed.
[Must have been temporary blip, its running okay for me:-)]

Cheers :)

</End subject> ;)

[oldboy2000]

This is not easy for me to do, and goes against my way of life, I give in to nobody, and have been that way all my life ... BUT....


I have been very unfair to Shano in that I attacked her Web Site Shanosworld, I was out of order even though I would not join the site there is no way for me to have been so abusive about it and its members.....it is probably good for those that need it ....I Don't...

My Humble Apologies Shano, and I do mean this quite sincerely...


So its no more :argue from me with you.

[shano]

I never hold malice anyway..

But, i have much respect for the gravity of the step you have taken there Dave, and of course, apology accepted. :)

You take good care of yourself.

P.S
:hug

[Geoffw]

Just to lighten thing up a bit................

I've just been watching "Chimp Week" on BBC1, and it makes me think that it is just as well for Charles Kennedy that he is only a politician and isn't a Chimpanzee! ;)

[Jedi2002]

In principle, Gina, I wouldn't vote for an alcoholic either, and in an ideal world, one shouldn't be running the country. But I bet you know at least two people with a 'drink problem' that is simply absorbed (no pun intended) into their personality, without you realising it! Doesn't make them (necessarily) less able to cope, just a little more unpredictable. Just try walking into your local on a Saturday night at 23:00hrs (you being sober) and I bet you'll be suprised by the new 'sides' of people you knew sober, that you'll see.

I'm not one to support heavy drinking, but from observation of life, underneath every hard personality there is a gentle, caring person trying to get out!

Regarding Mr K's resignation, it's no coincidence the following page appeared on the BBC News website Friday afternoon, then disappeared Saturday, got edited and then parked 'out-of-the way' later on on Saturday. All in the best possible British taste.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4585584.stm

For more info, just type 'Drink' into the BBC Search Engine [73 links last time I looked].

[Nick]

If he were an alcoholic Chimp would he have been drummed out of the party earlier?

I sit waiting for my apology from Dave....


Was that the sound of hell getting very very cold?

[oldboy2000]

Just to lighten thing up a bit................

I've just been watching "Chimp Week" on BBC1, and it makes me think that it is just as well for Charles Kennedy that he is only a politician and isn't a Chimpanzee! ;)


Its quite good mate being a Chimp.....sorry Chump:lol

[Steve]

If others wish to visit your board (and I'll be over to have a look like Druid ! ) then we'll doubtless do so.
[ EDIT just tried to visit your site, but it seems to be down ! :lol ]

I must hit the 'forgot your password?' link over there.

I found it to be a well put together and friendly site and a good read!

I haven't had any problems with it going down on me which is why I haven't been there for a while...if you know what I mean.

[martin]

I haven't had any problems with it going down on me

Is that what they call cyber sex :lol :lol ;) :)

[druid]

Is that what they call cyber sex :lol :lol ;) :)

Lol we started discussing Kennedy and have now gradually switched to Sex! :lol :lol

[Bill Henderson]

Dave, I.mm, bloody glad you are not my next door neighbour
Bill:argue

[shano]

I haven't had any problems with it going down on me

We promise not to - even if you ask :lol

However, password recovery is somewhat easier ;)

[oldboy2000]

Dave, I.mm, bloody glad you are not my next door neighbour
Bill:argue

No problems at all Mr Henderson it is with people that take libertys when I can't get at them.....My neighbours would not talk to me like it and I wouldn't talk to them either, no need to we are all good friends...

With respect it has all been cleared up so really there is no need to revive the subject....Thank you

Oldboy2000

[Jedi2002]

Thank God for that. So it means I can put the fire extinguishers back in their normal places. :)

[Jill]

Firstly, I quite like Charles Kennedy but I think he instrumented his own downfall. There were many occasions when he was questioned by the press about his drinking. This was probably because other politicians had made comments - by all accounts, there was concern by many for quite some time that Kennedy's drinking was an issue.

Unfortunately Kennedy took the decision to vehemently deny any drinking allegations. He lied. I would have had far more respect for him had he come right out with it in the first place. However, his secret was about to be exposed by one of the tv channels. He knew that if he did not make some sort of statement about it, he would be exposed nationally within a very short space of time ... either that evening or the following evening I believe. His announcement was most definitely made under duress.

So once it was out in the open, he had IMHO absolutely no alternative but to resign. Partly because he had clearly lied when previously questioned about his drinking. Partly because he had ignored the concern of his fellow MPs over his drinking. Parly because we know that reasoning is impaired by drinking and as the leader of his party he should not have placed himself in such a vulnerable position. Had his party become the primary opposition, there would undoubtedly have been jibes about his drinking whenever an opponent wanted to score a point.

When he appeared on tv not long ago, it was positively embarrassing to watch him stumble over his own party's figures:

The scene at the TV studio was reminiscent of Kennedy’s general election gaffe when, exhausted, he stumbled over tax figures at a media conference. Blaming his young baby for his lack of sleep, Kennedy appeared to suffer a fit of the stammers when asked to say who would be worse off from the party’s tax policies. “You are talking in the region of £20,000, err . . . yes. If you take a double income couple, £20,000 each, that’s what you are talking about . . . £40,000,” he said before being rescued by colleagues who were looking on aghast.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938517,00.html

In all honesty, I think he looked happier in subsequent news items, after his resignation, when he was enjoying quality time with his family. Perhaps in some ways the pressure of leading his party was too much for him. At least now he'll have a good deal of the pressure off.

[martin]

Yep good luck to him I say :)